Part 1 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Mark Malatesta: Hi everyone, this is Mark Malatesta with TheBestsellingAuthor.com and Literary Agent Undercover, helping authors of all genres—fiction, nonfiction, and children’s books—write, publish, and promote their work. For those of you who don’t know me, I’m the writer who went undercover and became a literary agent, to find out how to get my own books published. A literary agent is someone who gets authors book deals with traditional publishers like Penguin Random House and Hay House.

Today I’m an author coach and consultant who’s helped hundreds of authors get offers from literary agents and/or traditional publishers. My authors have gotten 6-figure book deals and advances with major publishers. They’ve been on the New York Times bestseller list, had their work picked up for TV, stage, and feature film (with companies like Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks, Lionsgate, and HBO Max), and won countless awards. They’ve also had their work licensed in more than 40 countries, resulting in millions of books sold.

Now, let me introduce today’s very special guest.

Part 2 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Mark Malatesta: Marni Battista is a well-known strategic life coach who helps people reinvent the next chapter of their lives, without sacrificing what they’ve already built. As an entrepreneur, author, coach, podcast host, wife, and mother, she knows firsthand the pressure of trying to “have it all.”

With her trademark straight talk and humor, Marni helps women say, “screw the should life,” to overcome burnout and overwhelm and start living a life beyond their wildest dreams.

Marni is the author of Your Radical Living Challenge: 7 Questions for Living a Meaningful Life, published by Hay House. Marni’s book offers a unique blend of spiritual wisdom and practical exercises, designed to redefine success, and reignite the passion in your life.

Rooted in neuroscience, somatics, and a whole-self approach to transformation, Marni’s book employs seven prescriptive lessons, based on the seven spiritual questions ancient rabbis imagine being asked at the gates of heaven, to determine whether one has lived a meaningful life.

Each spiritual question posed in the narrative, is illustrated by a personal Radical Living Challenge story–the author’s or a client’s. Prescriptive workbook style exercises are woven throughout each section, helping readers ask questions crafted to overcome fears and resistance, define success on their terms, and design their own year of radical living. Inside each section, Marni examines the truths and fictions we tell ourselves and others, as we teeter on the tightrope between love and freedom, meaning and mortality, guilt and redemption, terror and courage, hope and change.

Marni is CEO of the Institute for Living Courageously, a research-based, transformational personal development and well-being organization that has helped hundreds of thousands of people around the world hoping to break self-defeating habits, and create a meaningful life.

Marni has been featured on the Dr. Phil show, and appeared multiple times as a guest expert on On Air with Ryan Seacrest, and Dr. Drew Pinsky’s Loveline radio show. Her advice has appeared in outlets including The New Yorker, O Magazine, Huffington Post, CNN, Glamour, and Cosmopolitan, as well as on dozens of popular podcasts. Marni has published essays about relationships and identity in outlets such as The LA Times, Yahoo, and the Jewish Telegraphic Agency.

Practicing what she teaches, Marni currently operates her company while living full-time in a 40-foot RV named Andi, with her husband, Jeremy, and their two adventure cats, Simon and Fergus Katz.

To learn more about Marni, visit marnibattista.com.

So welcome, Marni!

Part 3 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Marni Battista: Hi. That’s so fun. Thanks for sharing all of that.

Mark Malatesta: My pleasure. You’ve lived a big life. It takes a little while, but it’s good. You have so much going on. My bio doesn’t look so long then.

Marni Battista: [Laughter]

Mark Malatesta: Alright, so let’s get into it. I’m so excited, as everyone listening will soon see. You know, it certainly took a while to get here. Good things often do [take a while]. I just told everybody a little bit what your book’s about. But will you take a few more minutes and tell everyone even more, since I know a lot of people listening will want to hear your advice for writers, but they may also want to get a copy of the book.

Marni Battista: The book is about a process I created to design a life you love on your own terms. I think the key piece is without blowing up the life you have. Because most people who get to this place where they did all the things they thought that were going to make them happy, and they’re at a certain point in their life, and they’re like, “What’s wrong?” They just feel unsettled and restless and they don’t know how to go about it. I was in that same situation, and I literally couldn’t find a book or a resource to help me navigate through that.

This book came from my own story of putting the design thinking model, which is out of Stanford University, that’s used to design products. I did a hybrid of that process with spiritual principles that I found through a sermon that I heard shortly after my dad died, to reorient myself to what success really is, and what that means for me. Then, how do I actually architect and engineer a life that is exactly for me, designed by me that ultimately ended up being beyond what I could have intellectually thought of? I walk people through that process, and my own story of change and going through it.

Mark Malatesta: Well, I have to ask you, then, a little bit about that, your own story changing, as a result.

Marni Battista: Yes, yes…

Mark Malatesta: You set yourself up, you opened the door.

Part 4 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Marni Battista: Yes, and I talk about this in the book. This whole journey started for me, I joke… It was a beautiful powder day in Canada, skiing with my best friend. I went down a double black diamond, and ended up flying through the air, breaking seven bones in my sacrum. Being immobile for three months and confronting the life I thought I was going to have, that it might not be that way. I had built my life on doing, not being, productive in every moment.

I couldn’t sit still, climbing the ladder to nowhere. You know, always striving, grinding. Then I was just flat on my back. That gave me a lot of time to think. A mentor told me, which I talk about in the book, “You broke seven bones in your sacrum. Your sacrum is the foundation of how we sit and stand. You broke the foundation, because you need to rebuild it. You had to break it to rebuild.”

I don’t think it is a coincidence that I then discovered these seven questions, because there were seven breaks, seven questions. That was when I was like, “Okay, I’ve been living my life from my neck up. I’m never satisfied. It’s never enough. It’s time to think of a new a new way to live my life.” I realized checking the boxes didn’t necessarily mean my life was meaningful or fulfilling.

That was the launch pad for my husband and I going through the process of experimenting and testing and deciding what that new life might look like. That’s how we ended up selling everything. We ended up actually living in the RV for a year, and then continued the process. And so now we’re living in a small mountain town in Colorado.

Mark Malatesta: Right, and literal launch pad, as in one lesson: Take time out to reflect and make sure you’re on the right path for yourself or life, God, source will throw you off a mountain.

Marni Battista: 100 million %. Most people wait for tragedy to realize life is precious. So my mission is to help people stop waiting. When we were in that RV traveling across the country, we were meeting all these people in their 70s and 80s that weren’t living their best life. My husband and I were in our, he’s late 40s, me early 50s, at the time. They were like, “Wow, you guys are doing it right. If I have one regret, it’s that I waited so long to start living the life that I really wanted to live.”

Mark Malatesta: And I mean, you may not have a take on this, but do you think this is, I mean, obviously it’s a timeless topic and forever needed…but do you think, since the pandemic, this has increased or changed for people?

Marni Battista: I do. It’s so interesting because I’m talking to so many women who got a taste of living life on their terms, and men, through the pandemic, and working remote, or being able to have more freedom or flexibility, or being confronted in the four walls during lockdown of every decision they ever made in an entire life. Looking at it through that lens, they’re asking themselves these questions.

I think the problem is they don’t know what to do next. They don’t know how to get there, and they’ve been living what I call the backup life, whether they know it or not. There’s this calling inside this like there’s something more, but nobody knows how to figure that out, and humans can’t predict what’s going to make them happy. So this process I’m teaching people in the book is life-changing. And, by the way, the process of transformation can be not only fun, but meaningful in itself.

Mark Malatesta: Backup life or “easy life,” but not necessarily easy…I was thinking, when you talked about the pandemic, it seemed like you know mostly the positives. But I’m thinking also like the stress of that for some people, unsure what’s next. It’s like, again, being thrown off the mountain, right?

Marni Battista: Well, that’s the other thing. I think, since the pandemic, our world in general has become more chaotic, right? And so these seven questions are not based on what’s going on externally. That’s the beauty, right? Like, if success means these things we think we can control, we realize we can’t control very much. So one of the best ways to create a fulfilling life is to make everything you desire within your own control, and then, wow, like so much magic is possible, no matter what’s going on outside.

Mark Malatesta: And everything you’re talking about in the book and helping empower people that way…they could do additional things with you or your organization, as far as additional training materials or events or coaching and things, right?

Marni Battista: Absolutely. I teach the process in the book, and I’m loving helping people walk through the process in small groups and one on one. It’s so amazing.

Part 5 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Mark Malatesta: I don’t know if I told you, but Ingrid and I are in our 50s, and we’ve been renters our whole lives. Well, a year and a half ago we finally bit the bullet and got our first place. We spent a year and a few months getting all settled and getting everything perfect. Then what happens? A flood. Not a natural disaster or climate change, but a bad plumber. So we’re out at least six months. I know other people are going through harder things in life, right? But it’s a traumatic event for us. I feel like Job or something…

Marni Battista: [Laughter]

Mark Malatesta: But what’s come out of that are so many blessings and creative things. Again, thrown off the mountain, but always trying in life to get as quickly to, “Okay, where’s the silver lining here?” You know? “How do we create one?”

Marni Battista: Yes.

Mark Malatesta: Maybe that’s just wishful thinking, but you can create it, right?

Marni Battista: For sure. You know, the whole point of the book is, what if life is happening for you, not to you, then how do you work with that?

Mark Malatesta: So let’s celebrate a little bit, you getting here. You and I were talking pre-call, your journey is a little different than some other people. I mean, it’s usually hard, but just relive that a little bit tell everybody how things unfolded, whether it’s the long version, or the short version about how you got the agent or agents, and the book offer. How did it feel? What have you done to celebrate, and any of that good stuff? This is kind of a visualization exercise for other authors listening, going, “Ooh, what would my version of that look like?”

You know…

Marni Battista: I love that. Well, my idea for a book started when I first met you. Many, many, many years ago. I wanted to write a dating book, right? I found you, and we did it. We got an agent. Her name was Andrea Somberg, and she was amazing. She said, “Love it, let me try and sell this.” Then she came back and said, “You need a platform.”

At that point, I was a former nursery school teacher, and I was like, “Is that a shoe? Like, what do you mean?” Right? I’m like, “I’ve got a platform.” What happened though, which is really, my case in point about the book. At that moment it hit me. I was like, “Wait, no, this is more than a book. I this is a business. I can help people.”

Mark Malatesta: Right.

Part 6 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Marni Battista: The book I had wanted to write at that time was about dating. I was like, okay, I need a bigger platform. So you and I took a break, and I set about to create that business. Then many, many, many years later, I spent so much time working on my business, and I decided that after my dad died, probably 13 or 12 years later, I wanted to write a book about it.

I had been doing writing workshops and staying in writing communities, writing essays. I wrote a self-published book that was partially for my business. I had written another memoir, and I decided I didn’t want to pursue that, so I put it in this book that I self-published. I came back to you, and I was like, “I have this book. I finished it.” We had a conversation, and it was great.

You were like, “Here are the 27 things you need to do. You can totally do them on your own, or not.” I was like, “or not, like, how can you help me?” And so we started working together. One of the first things you said was, “This needs a hook.” I was like, “I don’t even know if that means.”

This is one of the most powerful things that I got from working with you, beyond, you know, “Here’s the list, and here’s how you get the agent.” It was actually cultivating and creating the messaging and the hook for the book, which isn’t, and I think this is an important piece for people listening. It’s not to make it more salesy.

Mark Malatesta: Mm-hmm.

Marni Battista: The process you and I went through in that conversation was to get like the soul of the book, to actually bring it out, right? Not to manufacture some sort of thing that doesn’t feel in integrity. It was, let’s really find the soul of this book, and you asked me a question. I mentioned these seven questions that I had been pondering, and I had been thinking about the book in this way, and you said, “That’s it!”

I was like, “Oh my gosh, you’re right.” And so we loosely, very loosely, incorporated these seven questions into this memoir, and I followed the directions. I’m very good student. I have so many memories of conversations I had with you, like seriously taking notes, listening to the recordings, and we got an agent. It was an interesting conversation, even when this agent approached me, and this is another point, you’re really helpful because he was a little bit older and had more experience, and there were some other people, and we kind of ended up going with this guy, and it didn’t go great.

Mark Malatesta: Right.

Part 7 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Marni Battista: You were there for me throughout that process. I think that’s another really important piece. I didn’t have anyone. No one I know has published a book traditionally. So I didn’t have anyone to ask questions, like, “Is this weird? Is this not weird? What do you think?” You were so forthcoming and, in the end, I was not impressed. You were not impressed. You validated that.

One of the hardest things in the journey was writing an email to this agent, saying, “I don’t want to work with you.” He was like, “Wait, what? No. Come back.” But the thing is, I had been doing my process that I teach in the book, in this life design process, and in the ideation of that. I had this idea of, and I know we’re going to talk about author education, but one of the ideas I had was, I could go back to school and get my MFA, you know, Masters in Fine Arts.

Mark Malatesta: Right.

Marni Battista: I talked to a lot of my writer friends and mentors, and all of them said, “You don’t need that. You don’t need that.” So the thing that came from that was this really fun idea of, what if I look and see what is involved in an MFA, and then I curate my own through individual courses, classes, experts, right?

I was like, well, I have you, right? You’re the agent guy. You’re the publishing guy. And I started ideating…okay, I’m going to get my own MFA. I’m going to start taking these classes. One of the things I scribbled in my journal, which is sitting right here, because I brought it for this call, was ideas of things I could write about when I was designing my ideal life. Part of it was, “Live in an RV, travel around the country, and write about what it’s like to go through change.”

So literally, this book came idea wise from having the seven questions. They were floating out there, doing my life design process, thinking about this MFA I was going to curate myself, then coming up with just random things that blew my hair back that I could write about. Then I was like, “That’s the idea.” And so in this MFA sort of pursuit on my own, I came across this mentor who’s like a developmental editor, writing coach, and he’s sold a lot of stuff to Hollywood, and he’s just such a cool dude.

He was like, “Oh my god, I have this great idea.” We brainstormed it and came up with this idea of every location was going to be a metaphor based on the journey in the RV. So my husband and I actually chose the locations for our RV trip based on the structure of this book, which was super fun, researching, where should I go, what will the story be? By the time I had all of that together and reached back out to you, we were like, it’s go time, and you helped me create the proposal.

By the way, every single thing we did for that proposal, you know, I’m [now] in Book Launch Mode…I show it to my publicist or the publisher, or I hired a book marketing consultant, they’re like, “Whoa, how do you have that? This is amazing.” Like, I’m using all of that. It wasn’t just do the stuff for Mark so you can put in the proposal. It was, actually, you’re going to be using that the whole entire time, up until the moment that you’re actually selling book.

Part 8 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Marni Battista: So we did the process, and people are thinking, “Then she got an agent.” No, she got rejected, like 400 times. I was like, whomp whomp. But here’s the thing, one of the agents that said no, also said, “Can you rework your proposal using this format? I just have this format, and I just put this book up at auction, and we got a six figure deal. So just take your proposal. It’s great. You have all the pieces to put it in this format. Maybe I’ll take you.”

I was like, okay, so, another month, doing all that. I sent it out to her, and she was like, “No.” And I was like, “Nooo.”

Mark Malatesta: Yep. [Laughter]

Marni Battista: I came back to you, and I was like, “Okay, I have this different proposal. It’s the same information, different structure. Let’s go!” And because of the way you organize it, where it’s going to take you literally so long to completely utilize all of the resources, all the possibilities…I was only on round two of, like, what, there’s four or five, six possible right to go through [querying agents].

So I was like, “Okay, round two, baby, let’s do it” And with the new format, it just clicked. I had so many agents write me immediately, “Yes, let’s meet.” One of them, this guy, Steve Harris, ultimately became my agent. I read his website, and I got a good vibe. We met on Zoom. I had been in conversation with other people, and they were a little bit slower. I just decided to go for it. I just had such a good vibe from my meeting with him. Then I wrote the other people that I went with someone else, and they were all so mad. I felt bad, but then I was like, “No, trust your gut.”

Mark Malatesta: Yep.

Marni Battista: And here we are. We put the whole thing together. My proposal was so good because of the work that you and I did, there were no edits. It was just, “Let’s go.” We had a meeting. I can’t even remember the name of the publisher. He was like, “They’re smaller, the advance is gonna be maybe ten grand, but they’re great, and let’s have a meeting.” I was like, “Okay.” We had the meeting. The meeting’s over. Steve messages me, and he said, “Honestly, that was the best author meeting I’ve ever had. You crushed that you’re amazing, they loved you.”

Mark Malatesta: [Laughter]

Marni Battista: I was like, “Yay.” And then what happened? “Sorry, we’re not going to go with it.” I was, and he was, shocked, but he said, “So what? Let’s keep going.” That’s when I got this offer from Hay House and a $50,000 advance, and they got bought by Penguin Random House. So now I have a “Big Five” publisher, and it’s coming out February 4th. That’s my whole entire story. It took 15 years, but was worth every minute.

Mark Malatesta: I love it. Wow, and, and by the way, one of the things with you…it took longer, it was harder. But every time you showed up, you were positive energy and “can do” and let’s go. Man, that’s a part of it, and it sounds like your agent is the same. You know I’m that way, because that is half of it.

Part 9 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Marni Battista: You have to be resilient. If that one woman, Michelle, or whatever her name was, wouldn’t have said no, gave me this thing to redo… I think everyone listening needs to hear this, loud and clear. If you want this, you have to be committed, and you have to start thinking every no is just a redirect toward a yes. That’s all that it is, and that’s the truth, because it’s so competitive. I was telling you offline, I heard this agent speak about how competitive it is, and I was just like, “Damn, this is amazing, I got this deal. It wasn’t an accident. It was on purpose and it was commitment.”

Mark Malatesta: That’s right. Two other thoughts for you, pinging back to some things you said in the beginning, when we were thinking about the book and how to make it better, we didn’t go like salesy direction, but we got to the soul of it. We did both, actually. Maybe think of it as salesy soul, where it’s totally slick and smart and marketable, like with the seven questions. But it’s also totally authentic. They don’t have to work against each other. I think you have it all.

Marni Battista: Exactly, yes,. That’s what I meant to say, that it wasn’t manufactured and inauthentic. It was actually the hook. People keep asking me, when I’m talking about marketing or whatever, they ask, “Why did Hay House buy the book, and why did Steve say yes?” It’s because of those seven questions. I mean, he told me “I’ve never heard of this before. This is brand new.” Like, yes, yes, yes. You have that expertise. It’s like book therapy, right? You were like, “Tell me about it.” You’re going to ask me these questions, and it’s going to get me and you to this, “Oh, my God, this is it.” And that’s actually the thing that’s going to get the book sold. I couldn’t have thought of that on my own. I needed someone with the expertise to know what’s saleable. I had no idea, because I was so in my idea.

Mark Malatesta: Right, yes. I remember, in the beginning, I don’t remember how I said it, but originally, I think you explained it to me or pitched it to me, as, like, it’s going to be a book about your father passing and life lessons from that. I remember thinking, “How in the world are we going to sell that?” Like, on the face of it.

Marni Battista: Right, I bet.

Mark Malatesta: Like if that’s the first…no one wants to read that. It’s depressing, but that can still be the essence of it. But suddenly, wow, it sounds different Suddenly, but it’s the same core.

Marni Battista: Totally. And I think the other thing I learned is don’t be attached to your project, right? Because everything gives birth to the next thing. Everything matters. Everyone counts. So, if you hear Mark go, “Mmm, but what about,” then you should say, “Okay.” Don’t be like, “No, this is my thing, and you’re wrong, and I’m right, and I’m gonna go find another sandbox.” You have the expertise. You really, really get it, and you do want to get a yes, and so it’s like collaborative. That’s what I really liked about the process.

Part 10 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Mark Malatesta: And by the way, shout out to Penguin Random House. I don’t think I told you this, but [there are] two big reasons what I do is effective. Well, three reasons. One is I work with good people like you. Another is I used to be an agent. The third is that one of the earlier books I sold, it was called, ironically, in the dating space, The Marriage Plan: How to Meet and Marry Your Soulmate in a Year or Less. Another clever hook, right?

Marni Battista: Right.

Mark Malatesta: She had that. I didn’t give that to her. She had it. But, anyway, that book got sold to Random House at the time, and their publicity department, the book was coming out, they sent her this long questionnaire, and that’s when all the light bulbs went off for me. I was like, okay, this is the end game. This is what everybody wants and needs: the publisher, the publicist, the everything. So I just deconstructed that and worked backwards, right? So, like, everything is leading to that. So when you were saying, “Oh, they have what they need in your proposal.” Well, that’s why, thank you, Penguin Random House. It kind of helped me get there.

Marni Battista: That is so true. When I got that big, long questionnaire from Hay House or anything they asked me. I was like, “I have this, I have this, I have this.”

Mark Malatesta: Right. Copy, paste. Copy, paste.

Marni Battista: They were like, “Dang.” My agent was like, “You are so prepared. You have everything. I’ve never worked with anyone like this before.”

Mark Malatesta: Now, going back even further, when did you first get the idea you might be a writer or author? When was that?

Marni Battista: [Laughter] Well, I’m just laughing, because when I was 10 years old, I wrote a book in a yellow spiral binder. When was that? 1974? It was fully illustrated by me. I just always wanted to be a writer. It’s funny. I was thinking when I was writing my acknowledgements, I was like, This is my one and only Oscar speech, so I’m putting everything in there. When I was in high school, I was the editor of the school newspaper. My writing teacher, Sandy Doggett, shout out, is still around, said, “You’re a really good writer. I want you to go to this writing camp. It’s Ball State University in Muncie, Indiana.” My parents said, “Yeah, we’re not taking you. But, sure, you can go.”

Mark Malatesta: [Laughter]

Marni Battista: And [unintelligible] offered to freaking drive me there. This was in a time when that was appropriate and cool, right? She drove me to camp, she was a faculty there, and she just believed in me. And so I really think that I’ve always wanted to be a writer. When I got divorced from my first husband, writing was the outlet. At that point, I was wanting to write a book about that story. That’s 75% finished, I will never finish, because I don’t need to tell that story anymore. But writing has always been my thing. So it maybe had places in my life where it was quiet for a while, but I I’ve always known I’m meant to write.

Mark Malatesta: Yep, if it’s in you, it doesn’t ever completely go away. Or if you try to make it happen, again, you get thrown off the mountain.

Marni Battista: Exactly. I love it.

Part 11 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Mark Malatesta: I talked earlier about some of your writing credits and things like that, so I won’t repeat that here. But how did that impact your evolution, I guess, to kind of becoming a book author, and anything about that that might be interesting or helpful for an author?

Marni Battista: Well, people should steal my “curate your own MFA degree” idea, for sure. So, here are some things I did. First of all, I took a ton of writing workshops, in person, virtual. I met so many amazing writing teachers and mentors who, by the way, like one of the people gave me an endorsement for my book. Terri Cheney, she’s the author of the bestselling memoir, Manic, which turned into an episode of Netflix’s Modern Love. I wrote to her, and she said, “Hell yeah.” Then she read the book.

She was like, “this is really great, and helped me in my life. I’m going through this…” She gave me a great blurb. And so all those people that I took classes from became my advocates and my champions. And when I reached out for endorsements, they were like, “Hell, yeah.” Totally amazing. So, I took a lot of those. I also took interest in book clubs. And I didn’t just do a book club with my girlfriends making charcuterie boards and chatting about Bridgerton.

Mark Malatesta: Wow. [Laughter]

Marni Battista: I actually got involved in a literary book club where there’s a professional facilitator who’s a professor and an author. I have been doing that for years, and I love that. I learned about story theme. Also, things I was learning about writing, I was starting to see in the books I was reading—what makes a great story, character— having those conversations. One of my favorite writing coaches told me, “People come to me and they’re like, ‘I want to write a book. Can you help me?’ And they don’t read.”

Reading and discussing from the point of view of a writer and a reader is really super helpful. And then finally, I listened to some really amazing podcasts as part of my MFA. One of them is called “The Shit No One Tells You About Writing.” That’s an amazing one: listening to people’s queries, listening to other authors. I read a great book, even though mine was nonfiction, I read this great book someone recommended, called Story Genius. I actually put my story through that process, and also, because it was memoir, I really learned a lot about myself too. It was really helpful.

Mark Malatesta: Right.

Marni Battista: So I just decided, I’m going to get my MFA, I’m going to learn all these things. And then I started learning about book marketing and publishing, and I took an author branding workshop that took what we learned we got in a proposal and a lot of the pieces that you need for that someone told me like become a literary citizen. I joined writing sprints. I took a class from this person named AJ Harper. She suggested what she calls a test drive.

And so after the first draft of my book, I found 12 people to actually read the book and do the exercises to make sure that the exercises worked. I got client stories. I never would have thought of that on my own. So that was a really great tip. She also taught a class about your call to action, your last chapter, right?

Mark Malatesta: Right.

Part 12 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Marni Battista: She helped me brainstorm the story that’s the call to action that came from playing a game called Bananagrams with my kids. There have been so many amazing people who have touched this story, and so I would say, don’t write in isolation. Become a literary citizen and become better at what you do.

Mark Malatesta: I love that, and all those people can help you promote the book. Wink, wink.

Marni Battista: Exactly, right? Because they all helped, and they all want to support it, and it’s been great.

Mark Malatesta: Now I know you talked a little bit about this, so if you don’t have more, that’s fine. But is there any additional tip or anything you have for somebody while they’re in the process of writing a book, something you didn’t already share?

Marni Battista: Yes. So again, part of my little self-paced MFA, I also listened to really successful writers talk about their craft. I think it was Elizabeth Gilbert. I loved this. Someone was asking her, “How often do you write?” Like, that’s such a common question, you know, how do you how often do you write? She was like, “I think of my books, like a really important intimate relationship. If you’re in a relationship, you can’t just show up, like, once a month for 10 minutes and be like, ‘Hey, love you. Let’s watch 10 minutes of a show together.’ Or you can’t say, ‘I’m only going to be in relationship with you in the exact right setting with a candle lit and the right coffee and the right lighting, and I’m in a really good mood, I’m gonna do it for four hours.'”

Mark Malatesta: Right.

Marni Battista: She said, “You need to be in a relationship with your book every single day.” I was like, “Okay.” That meant me. I literally left the tab open with my book, my manuscript, and if I had 20 minutes in between meetings, I would edit one sentence, I would read a paragraph and change some words. I did have giant writing blocks, but I made it a practice to love my book every day. I would recommend that, because turned out to be a beautiful relationship. And by the way, you’re going to talk about this book for like, years, so…

When I was a dating coach, I say you have to set your calendar up as if you’re in a relationship. Don’t tell me you don’t have time to date, right? Because if I plop the most amazing guy in front of you, you’re going to make time for him. Same thing goes with writing. If you sell this book, you’re going to be rewriting another draft, you’re going to be doing proof edits, you’re going to be loving on this book. So, act like you already have the book deal and love on your book in the writing process.

Part 13 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Mark Malatesta: I love that. I love the relationship angle and what Gilbert said, too. It’s a relationship, and you said this kind of indirectly. It’s not just the writing time, but, in a real relationship, it’s not just date night on Friday. It’s like, I made my wife tea this morning, and then we saw each other for a few minutes, and then there’s a text later. Like, with you and the writing, it’s not just the writing time. You’re doing some of that reading. You’re listening to a video by Elizabeth Gilbert or something, right? There’s a lot to it.

Marni Battista: It’s being a writer.

Mark Malatesta: Not just writing, but being a writer.

Marni Battista: Yes, exactly. Identity is everything.

Mark Malatesta: Now, what about publishing? Before you found me, was there ever a time you were thinking about self-publishing or vanity publisher vs a traditional publisher? I mean, someone can have success either way. But what was your thinking about that early on? And did that ever evolve or change?

Marni Battista: Well, I did self-publish a book, and it was fine, and it’s actually really good. I’m proud of it. But for me, this was my dream, my childhood dream, to have a book in a bookstore. This was like, I will go to my grave trying to accomplish this goal, not because it means, and this is huge… It wasn’t because it means I’m more valuable or have more expertise or am more worthy, or I’m going to get famous or make a bunch of money, but because it’s literally my soul’s expression on the world. This is my legacy. This book is my manifesto for how I live my life, and I wanted to have this experience in my life of being a paid professional, published traditionally, author.

That is what was driving me. Otherwise, to get this result… If you’re Sarah J Moss, or JK Rowling, or whoever it is… Someone told me at this writing conference, Sarah J Moss, who writes fantasy fiction, makes more money than these really famous crime writers like James Patterson and Baldacci. That’s so rare. Don’t do it for the money. Do not do it for the money.

Mark Malatesta: Yes. I mean, I get nervous if I have somebody on an introductory coaching call and they say, “I need to get a publisher to be able to pay my rent” I’m like, “Oh, no, no, no, no. It does not work that way. I mean, if you have the time to invest, invest the time. But when it happens, or how it happens, or how big it happens, and how much you’re getting paid, those are just massive variables.” You know?

Marni Battista: 100%, and, by the way, I think a lot of people forget, you know… I didn’t get $50,000 at once, right? You get it spread out over two years, and my agent gets X percent. And so, yeah, you’re not paying your rent.

Mark Malatesta: If you get the jackpot stuff we talked about [you can], right? When I was an agent, ironic, because [one time] we got a measly $5,000 advance. But I didn’t care, because this was a long time ago, and I knew the publisher and how they work. The irony is that within six months of the book coming out, the author sold 88,000 copies. So, the advance check was small, but man, there was a big fat royalty check. And then twice a year, another big fat royalty check. I don’t know, when was this? Like, 20-some years ago, I still get royalty check every six months…my part, the commission.

Marni Battista: Oh my God, I love that.

Part 14 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Mark Malatesta: That’s what we all dream about. Again, we can’t bank on that happening, but you can absolutely earn out that advance or make more, enough to cover the advance, and then those extra checks are coming in. But you’re not relying on that to put a kid through college. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn’t.

Marni Battista: For sure, but the journey has been amazing for me. I’m still in it. It was like, you know, those cooking shows where they go, “Your time is up,” and everybody walks away, and they put their hands up. When I did my last edit, I was like that. I definitely took some time off from writing, and so literally, just two weeks ago, I was like, I’m ready. I’m coming back. I’m gonna start writing again, actually, in the next week or two. I’m ready.

Mark Malatesta: Right. Now, this question is perfect timing, because you’re in launch mode, everything you can do to promote the book. You know, the six weeks prior to publication, the six weeks right after publication, those most important to try to try to create a lot of buzz that will then snowball. So, what’s your best advice for authors about marketing?  You can go anywhere with this. I don’t care if you’re talking about while you’re working on your book, you should be doing this and that for marketing for down the road. Or right before the book comes out. Or when it’s out. Anything for authors of any genre. What are some things you think might be helpful for them to think about?

Marni Battista: Oh my gosh. Well, I didn’t know anything about anything. So when I was following the breadcrumbs of my curated MFA, I came across a book brand strategist. I was like, “That sounds interesting. What is that?” I was also pivoting my company, because this book is not about dating, and I’ve been a dating coach for like, 12 years, hardcore, with a lot of Google pages about that. I had to pivot everything, and I didn’t really know how to go about doing that. I took a little workshop class, and I got some of the pieces together, and then in April, 10 months before the book release, I hired this person to help me put together literally everything.

She did an audit of my website. She helped me create the new website I now have. How they integrated with my other brands. We did a whole brand brief with my taglines, my bio, my short bio, my long bio, a media kit, lead magnet, which is something so people have an idea who you are and how to start getting to know you. She’s helped me curate my newsletter for my list, gave me feedback on my book cover, on my PR plan. She also helped me come up with the idea for my pre-sale incentive I’m going to do. So literally, I didn’t know any of this stuff needed to be done. It’s like, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Part 15 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Marni Battista: I think if you’re not going to hire someone, you really need to know what all the pieces are that you’re going to need if you really want to give it your go. I hope people know this: Your publisher isn’t going to be like, “We’re lining you up in New York for two weeks. We’re putting you up. You’re going to be on the Today Show, and then you’re going to talk to Howard Stern. Then you’re going to have a signing at Barnes and Noble in Times Square.”

That doesn’t happen. They’re doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes, but you have to take responsibility for that. So, I ended up hiring a publicist as well. I think you have to understand that if you really want the books to sell, you have to make that very specific effort. I think it’s really funny. So I have to share this. I will never forget the moment I was in my RV and Steve, my agent, called, and he’s like, “We sold the book.” I’m not kidding you, for like, 30 seconds, I was like, “Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.” And then on the 32nd second, I was like, “Oh God, now I have to sell them.”

Mark Malatesta: [Laugher] Well, you had 30 seconds of bliss.

Marni Battista: 30 seconds of bliss. And so literally, since April, 10 months, a lot of my time has been preparing to launch my book, and launch this part of my brand, and see what happens from it. That’s also not a five-second thing like, “Okay, I guess we’re launching tomorrow. Should I go and do a Facebook Live?” I don’t really think that’s going to be very effective.

Mark Malatesta: At first you were probably disappointed. I know we were both a little surprised when, you’ll probably know this, if you can remember the date you got the book deal. What was the time between that date and the actual publication date? That was a big window.

Marni Battista: It was November 2022 when I got the deal, and it’s going to be published in February 2025.

Mark Malatesta: Yeah, so that’s, wow. But, in retrospect, you’re probably thinking, “Okay, that’s all cool now.” Because once you’re committed to the promotion stuff, getting everything ready and gearing up to make it successful, you’re like, “Okay, I have more time to do that now that that’s fine.”

Marni Battista: Yeah, it was fine. I mean, they gave me a year to write the book.

Mark Malatesta: Mm-hmm. Oh, right, you did have to write the book while you were at it.

Part 16 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Marni Battista: Because it was nonfiction. So I did three and when I say three drafts, that’s not like, three drafts. It was, you know, 100 drafts of draft one, and then 100 drafts of draft two, and then draft three, which is really funny. I went back to the guy who helped me come up with the whole idea, and he’s just a great, great development editor. I literally thought it would just be like, “Move this paragraph, change this.” But he was like, “Okay, here’s what we’re gonna do.” I was like, “Oh my God, okay, I’m still actually writing. Oh my gosh.” The changes we made are so amazing, the way he made the story, and then something happened at the end that I told him.

Mark Malatesta: [Laughter]

Marni Battista: I was like, “Oh my gosh, this just happened.” He was like, “Well, I’m sorry, but that’s got to be the new ending of your book.” I was like, “What, really?” He was like, “Yeah, write it.” And so, like, literally, life happened, and the ending changed. So, you’re never done writing until you know you’re off to print, which I believe just happened for me a couple days ago.

Mark Malatesta: And by the way, it can happen, that crazy, wonderful scenario you talked about with the two week tour and all that. But, again, we don’t bank on that. That might be your next book. You never know.

Marni Battista: Yeah, I’d love that. That would be amazing. I’m down, yep.

Mark Malatesta: You novelists listening to this, or reading the transcript, you’ve got to have your book finished before you can pitch an agent. Sorry. But you nonfiction authors can get off easy and “just write some sample chapters and a proposal.” I make it sound so easy.

Marni Battista: Except your nonfiction writers don’t have to spend pages and pages of a proposal proving they have a platform. So I think it’s a tradeoff either way.

Mark Malatesta: Yeah, it is. You don’t have to write the book in advance, but you got to do all the platform work, which some people say, “This is as much work as the book!”

Marni Battista: For sure.

Part 17 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Mark Malatesta: I know you already very kindly talked about some of our work together, and some of the things you got out of it. Is there anything else along those lines that you wanted to share that would help people get a better sense of what the experience is like. It could be just the idea. I mean, the main thing I want people to do is get help, like you’re talking about. Maybe they’re a fit for me, some of them, some aren’t. But is there anything more you want to share along those lines?

Marni Battista: Yes. I just think, because I was in so many different writing communities, I’ve seen people do it the other way. You go on Publishers Weekly, and you find yada-yada-yada, and you send the thing, and you ask ChatGPT to write you a query letter. I’m a fan of whatever way you want to do it. For me, I want to work hard and work efficient. I don’t want to guess. I want to get to the finish line in the most fun and efficient way possible, and that was through finding someone like you who’s an expert at all of these things.

That process, I looked forward to our calls. I loved doing the work to execute on my sort of “homework.” The benefit that your listeners today have listening to this particular interview is like, I didn’t even understand the full value of all of that, how it was going to help me later down the road. So I’m telling you right now, whatever Mark asks you to do, it’s not just for this. It’s literally for two years later.

Mark Malatesta: Right.

Marni Battista: That’s invaluable. If you want to do it in a shorter amount of time, because it’s going to take two years anyway, get help. It’s so much more fun. Also, writing is a solitary thing. So, being in communities and having guides who are professionals is just fun. I value learning and growing, so it was just the best. It wasn’t a one and done. You really stayed with me through the whole process. You really care about the people you work with, and I think that’s rare today, so it’s just been great.

Mark Malatesta: Thank you. That has a lot to do with you. I mean, I’ll stick with anybody, just out of professionalism and principle, but you definitely want to be there that much more for the people like you who are staying positive. You said, “I’m going to do the work and I’m going to be coachable.” I said, okay, well, you’re doing everything you possibly can. So how do you bail on someone then? You can’t. I can’t.

The efficiency thing is interesting. I hate wasted time. It’s one of the biggest battles in what I do, trying to protect authors, sometimes from themselves. Like, “No, don’t, don’t do that. Don’t spend time on that.  Spend time on this thing, this way.” I know every minute we save the person, that’s maybe one more query that will go out before they quit. Maybe the one we need. So it’s not just efficiency because it’s nice to be efficient. I mean, that’s part of it, but there’s that bigger picture of, man, if you aren’t efficient, you know, there’s much less chance you’ll make it.

Part 18 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview

Marni Battista: You need, there’s a system, right? Like, even when I went to the speaker the other day, she was saying the stuff I now know, right? Like, every agent wants a different thing, some want this, some want two pages, some want, you know, whatever it is. You know that, and have everything systematized. You tell the author how to organize it so that you can do it efficiently and thoroughly. The other thing is, when I looked at that whole list of like, how 700 however many agents are on the planet that’s updated, you were like, “Wait, we’re gonna wait a couple weeks, I’m going to update the list.”

I knew that when, that first time we sent out however many, and there were a zillion no’s, I was like, “Okay, fine. We’re only on round two, there are literally like, don’t give up.” I think when you’re going [just] 12 at a time, there’s the feedback of, if you get 12 nos, then you need to go back and do X, Y and Z. But, what I learned from you is, maybe you don’t. Maybe those are just 12 people. 12 is, like, so tiny.

Mark Malatesta: If there are only 12 or 20 people to query, then, yes, you query 12 and it’s like, “Okay, let me go back and revise and change.” But if there are hundreds of good agents you can query, that’s insane. It’s going to take years.

Marni Battista: It is insane, and also just the time to figure out which agent does what, and you organize that super well. I just didn’t have time to spend hours and hours researching. The Internet is huge. Is that the most updated information? A lot of these people, they’re not marketers, they don’t care. They’re getting 60 queries a day. So if their email address is out of date or they don’t work there anymore, they don’t care. You’re going to be sending it into a black hole.

If you’re serious about getting your book traditionally published, I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t invest. If your kid said, I want to become a blah, blah, blah, you know, you buy them the hockey uniform, you take them to practice, you drive across the state to go to the tournament, you get them a coach. You would do that for your kid or someone you love. Why would you not do that for yourself? If this is something you really are serious about. That is my philosophy in life.

Mark Malatesta: Well, that’s a perfect way to cap it off. And thank you. Thank you for doing this and always being positive. I’m so excited to see the book as soon as it’s available. It will be by the time anybody is reading this or listening to this, but thank you again for doing this. I know everything you shared is going to help and inspire a lot of people.

Marni Battista: I love talking about this journey. You need beacons of inspiration along the way to know it’s real. I’m not extraordinary in any way. I’m an ordinary girl who wanted to write a book and I just wasn’t going to stop. You’re an amazing resource. I mean, we’re literally three for three in terms of getting agents. That’s legit.

Mark Malatesta: Thank you.

Marni Battista: What a great thing, also, I just have to say this, to work with you is to know that if I say no to that one guy, there are more out there, right? To really be in that abundance mindset. I knew there were more out there. And if I didn’t have you, and I didn’t have that knowledge, I might have settled.

Part 19 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review

Mark Malatesta: Right. I get that. Thank you.

Okay everyone, this is Mark Malatesta, founder of The Bestselling Author, with Marni Battista, author of Your Radical Living Challenge, published by Hay House, a division of Penguin Random House, now available everywhere books are sold. I love saying that. You can learn more about Marni at marnibattista.com.

And, if you’re interested in a private 1-on-1 coaching call with me, to talk about the best way to write, publish, or promote your book, visit AuthorConsultation.com.

Lastly, if you’re listening to this interview—or reading the transcript—and you’re not yet a member of my online community, register now [it’s free] at TheBestsellingAuthor.com for instant access to more information (and inspiration) like this, to help you become the bestselling author you can be.

Remember…

Getting published isn’t luck, it’s a decision.

See you next time.

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Former Literary Agent Mark Malatesta

This interview and review of Mark Malatesta were provided by Marni Battista, author of the self-help book, Your Radical Living Challenge, published by Hay House, a division of Penguin Random House. Marni worked with Mark Malatesta, an author coach and consultant, to get a top literary agent.

Mark Malatesta is a former literary agent and former AAR member who’s now helped 400+ authors of all Book Genres (fiction, nonfiction, and children’s books) get literary agents and/or traditional publishers. Mark is Founder & CEO of Literary Agent Undercover, a division of The Bestselling Author, through which he provides 1-on-1 Literary Agent Advice (coaching and consulting).

Mark’s writers have gotten offers of representation from the Best Literary Agents at the Top Literary Agencies; book deals with major publishers such as Harper Collins, Random House, and Thomas Nelson; and sold millions of books. They’ve been on the New York Times bestseller list; had their work optioned for TV, stage, and feature film; won countless awards; and had their work licensed in 40+ countries.

Mark is also the creator of the well-known Directory of Literary Agents, with a comprehensive List of Literary Agents seeking writers. In addition, Mark is the host of Ask a Literary Agent, and author of the popular How to Get a Literary Agent Guide. His articles have appeared in outlets such as the Writer’s Digest Guide to Literary Agents and the Publishers Weekly Book Publishing Almanac.

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Mark Malatesta Reviews

Here you can see more Mark Malatesta reviews from authors like Marni Battista who’ve worked with Mark to get top literary agents, and traditional publishers such as Hay House, a division of Penguin Random House. You can also see reviews of Mark Malatesta from publishing industry professionals. These reviews of Mark Malatesta include his time as an author coach and consultant, literary agent, and Marketing & Licensing Manager for the well-known book/gift publisher Blue Mountain Arts.

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